Mental Health, Athletics, and the Holistic Approach
What happens when your sense of identity and self-worth becomes tied to athletic performance?
In this episode of Finding Your Balance, Tiffani Fritzsche and Kirk Fasshauer talk with licensed clinical social worker, competitive athlete, and founder of Willow’s Path Counseling, Jessica Dobbertin-Borruso, LCSW, about mental health, athletics, and the importance of a holistic approach.
Jessica shares her experiences as a competitive water skier and discusses the pressures athletes face, from performance expectations and team responsibilities to the challenge of separating who you are from how you perform. The conversation explores practical tools for managing stress, building a support system, and finding mental health balance.
Transcript
(May contain errors)
Tiffani: Welcome to Finding Your Balance, a mental health podcast. My name is Tiffani Fritzsche. I'm a licensed mental health counselor. I'm joined with my friend, Kirk Fasshauer, licensed clinical social worker. If this is your first time joining us, we're so happy you're here. Welcome. If this is your second time or your third or fourth or fifth, welcome back. We're so happy you're here. Absolutely. And today we have a very special guest. Joining us in our studio is Jessica Dobbertin-Brusso. She's a licensed clinical social worker and founder of Willow's Path Counseling. Jessica, we are so happy to have you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So first of all, please tell us, Willow's Path, what is it named after?
Jessica: It's named after my cat, Willow.
Tiffani: That is my favorite thing.
Jessica: It's, you know, it's got a little unique twist to it. But yeah, so with Willow, I thought you could go with... You know, our pets are very special to us. They have a lot of meaning and connection, which you could also connect with counseling as well and pet therapy. And then also like willow trees symbolize growth and the changes and seasons in our lives and shedding of leaves and rebirth and growth and all that cool stuff. So that was kind of the inspiration behind the name.
Tiffani: So I've known you for a long time. And one of my favorite things about you and Kirk, I hope you will agree, or maybe you have a different favorite thing, is I love how you really approach mental health in a holistic way. So I've watched you through the years, just as you've grown you know in your career and in your practice with mental health, and you walk the walk And so I've seen you from afar and up close, and I've definitely seen you're consistently focused on how do you holistically create a balanced life. And so we'd love for you to just kind of jump in and talk to us about what are some of the practical ways that you practice mental health in a holistic fashion? And how is that something that we can do like day to day?
Jessica: That's a great question. Well, I think that... of that was inspired from being in the mental health field and seeing the impact on ourselves as what we carry during the day, trying to hold space for other people. And then with being an athlete, wanting to figure out the best ways or the best ways for myself and my body and my lifestyle to continue to sustain what I wanted to be able to do. What were the specific questions?
Tiffani: So many questions that I've already forgotten. Let's reset. That's called rapid fire questioning. What brought you to Florida? Why don't you jump into there? Because I think that leads into our next question. How did you get here?
Jessica: So I was recruited for the Florida Southern College water ski team. So I went to college there and competed on the team all four years. But I was recruited. I competed there. You know, looked into different master's programs. I always knew I wanted to be a therapist. So I kind of stuck around and have wanted to stay in the water ski community. And I've continued to become a competitor. So it was really fun to be realistic.
Kirk: Yeah, that was an exciting bit of you that I learned about when you joined us. And it was like, oh, that's cool. We've had conversations about that. What's it like? Is it hard competing? Things like this. But do you utilize that as a release? Is that for your mental health? Yeah. Or was it something else that drew you into skiing?
Jessica: Some of both. I mean, the passion, just like the adrenaline, the excitement of being involved in a sport and competing, all of that was definitely what drew me to it. But what's kept me in it was how much fun I had, the sense of community I got within the sport. It was a family sport. I grew up all, my whole family was competing. Okay. So we'd always travel to tournaments together. All family style, kind of fun, competitive vibes there. So coming into college, it was already easy to transition to that team environment of that's my new competitive family. Training together, practicing together, competing together, cheering each other on. So that kind of piece is…
Kirk: What was it about water skiing, though? I mean... When you think of… going into sports, people think, oh, baseball, softball, track, field, you know, those kinds of things. But water skiing is, wow, all right, yes. It's very different, right?
Jessica: It's different, yeah. So I was very fortunate to grow up on a public lake in upstate New York. And my dad and my mom, they both water skied. My dad used to manage a water ski team way before I was born that would do show skiing and things like that of that nature. And when we were growing up, we all got involved and connected to the right people to do competitive skiing and learn about. Nice. slalom skiing and kind of the fire just kind of kept going in our family. So that's kind of what continued the passion.
Tiffani: So the question that I've had while you've been talking about this is going from New York water skiing to Florida water skiing. There probably aren't alligators in New York. And so did you have to learn special skills water skiing in Florida?
Jessica: Yeah, you definitely keep your head on a swivel down here. You also learn at the times of the day where the fellow other lake occupants like to spend their time. They have like a morning and an evening routine. So they'll just pass by and you just let them go and then you wait and then you carry on. Sometimes you got to nudge them a little bit because we don't want to be their lunchtime snack. But usually they keep to themselves. It's kind of just all share the water time. Works out pretty good.
Tiffani: Wow. So you talked about becoming an athlete. Well, you've been an athlete for a while, but whenever you came down to college, I would imagine there's a lot of pressure on not wanting to disappoint your team. A hundred percent. Or not wanting to disappoint your school group and your family. That sounds like a lot.
Jessica: Yeah. So with having like a scholarship, you have that kind of pressure, right? Because if you don't perform, you could lose that funding, which could be detrimental to your education. Your ability to be at that school. So that was one piece. Another piece is, of course, your family's worked hard to help you get to this spot. And everyone's proud of you talking about, oh, Jessie's over at school, right? So that's another layer of competing and being an athlete. And then you have your team. You don't want to let them down. So you want to perform well enough to carry the score for the team. And then on campus, everyone identifies you as an athlete. So that becomes your identity. And a lot of college athletes struggle with that being like their purpose, like that is the main core of who they are. So then a lot of weight gets put into performance, your output, your scores, like how you're performing, that kind of thing.
Tiffani: So hearing you talk, I think a lot of times people equate their sense of value or their self-worth in how they perform or what they do. And I can imagine whenever it's going well, it goes really well. And when it's not going so well, it can hit really hard. Yes. Tell me, like, as an athlete, what are some ways that you have found to find that balance when maybe it's not going well? How do you not lose yourself in that?
Jessica: It's an ongoing journey, for the record. But a lot of it is learning your support system, who can help you navigate those moments. Because sometimes when you're in it so deep, you don't see that it's just a Tuesday. And you're on the water. You know what I mean? Like you don't see the bigger picture. Like, okay, I didn't get injured today. Okay, exercise today. Okay, it was a beautiful day. I was outside. I'm with my friends. Like all the positive things you don't think about in that moment. In that moment, you think about I failed. I let myself down. I didn't accomplish my goal. I've invested time, money, resources, whatever, to get to this spot. Like you think about all the negative things. So some of the things that I've found that have helped me is creating that support system of the people that know. how to kind of guide you when you're stuck in it and you can't pull yourself out. And then also we all have our own little coping skills that help us with that. So for me, it'd be music is one thing because sometimes some tournaments you have multiple rounds a day. So even if you did terribly the first round, you still have to figure out how to clear your head and give it another go later in the afternoon. So music is really good. I love yoga, breath work, just to kind of notice how your nervous system is responding to how you're feeling. That has been very... it kind of keeps you more connected to like okay this is bothering me more than I thought it did or how can I let this go how can I best prepare for my next next round that kind of thing.
Kirk: So how would you you gave some ideas as to what what you did but how would you help somebody who's maybe just starting out some of our listeners or with colleges just breaking out on their own there they might be involved in sports and I Yeah, I totally see that. It's a big value piece for folks and a lot of pressure. How do you help them start to build a support network?
Jessica: So leaning on your teammates, the ones that you feel you really connect well with. Because, I mean, when you're on some soccer teams, there are like 20, 30 kids, right? It's really hard to connect with everyone. But usually you're able to kind of navigate and find a buddy that kind of thinks similarly to you. Or maybe it's a coach. Maybe it's a mentor. Maybe it's an assistant coach. Maybe it's another person in the sport that isn't necessarily at your college. Maybe it's your buddy from your hometown soccer team or whatever. That is still a very, very good support network. Some of my closest supporters, besides my close family and husband and coach, are... People that are in different states that support me that are also professional water skiers. So we kind of connect with each other. Even though they don't do the same discipline that I do, they might be jumpers. But I won't hold that against you if you're watching. But we're able to kind of have that understanding and support. So that's one way is leaning on your teammates, kind of finding how you connect with them. Another way is just kind of learning your body, learning what things set you off. And trying to identify like those. I mean, for lack of a better word, trigger. What triggers you into that downward spiral of thought processes? Is it that fear of failure? Is it that who's watching me and I'm failing? Is it, you know, kind of navigating those thought processes?
Kirk: Yeah, so is that something you just sat down and wrote out, or is it something you talked with your connection, your social network?
Jessica: Yeah, some of it was that. Some of it was social network. Over the years, I have hired a sports psychologist as well, and I saw them regularly for a bit to kind of help better understand the process. But as a beginner in the sport or as a college athlete, or maybe that isn't an accessible resource, yeah, like journaling, reflecting. Why am I doing this? What's your why? Why are you here? Why do you like to do this sport? What brings you to the water or to the court every day? Just remembering. And grounding in those things, like I said earlier, like, I'm at the lake. It's sunny out. I get to ski. I'm with my friends. It's beautiful. I got to exercise. I got to move my body. That's still something to be grateful for. So kind of having your gratitude list, for lack of a better word, can kind of help with that, too. Did I answer that question?
Kirk: You did. You did. I think, well, because I think there's two sides to being involved in sports. It's one Physically involved, it helps with our mental health, keeps our head clear, things like that. But then there's also, like you said, the pressure of performance and finding ways to overcome some of those pressures, to have a little release valve because some pressure is good.
Jessica: Yes.
Kirk: Overwhelming pressure is not good. Correct. So that can debilitate you in your performance. You mentioned music. So how did music play a role in either moving you forward or slowing you down?
Jessica: So I have a certain playlist for my warm-up. Which has a variety of different genres. Depending on what mood I'm in, I'll select certain songs. And then in between rounds, if I need to kind of chill out, if I hear my mind is going a million miles a minute. Adding more pump-up music is not going to help that energy. It's going to make it worse than shifting into something a little bit more calming. But I like all different genres, just depending on my mood. So learning what kind of music makes you more motivated, gets you focused, gets you, you know. Allowing you to be in that headspace to move your body the way you need to, whether that is calming down, whether that's warming up, whether that's getting fired up.
Kirk: Right. So when I've done a stress management workshop, I talk about music being – and people look at me and go, how's music? Well, it can stress you or it can de-stress you depending on what you pick. And I said – because I do talk about it as a – utilizing anxiety and stress for performative issues. There's a certain level that you want to be anxious and stressed at that's like your peak performance. You don't want to go over that line. You don't want to go under that line. And I talk about a lot of athletes. They strive for this and often visualization being one of those things. We can talk about that in a minute. But music. And then I looked at my audience and I say, so what is your theme song? And they all look at me kind of funny. So I'm going to ask you, what is your theme song? Do you have one?
Jessica: It depends on the day.
Kirk: Does it?
Jessica: I mean, I have that like that core playlist. Like those are probably like I could pick one on that playlist depending on the day, how I was feeling. But it's definitely on that playlist. So it depends on the day, what headspace I'm in. If I need a little more energy, maybe a little more techno, maybe. This is totally aging myself, but Avicii's Levels is a really good millennial song. But it's a techno vibe for the most part, just not focusing on exact words. And then there's days where you need that motivational kind of message through music. So I love a lot of reggae for that purpose. Roots music, a lot more grounding, connecting to believing in yourself and believing in community and that kind of thing.
Kirk: Nice, nice. I've got two that really get me going. Okay. One is My Sunrise. It's by Audrey Napoleon. And then Unstoppable.
Jessica: Oh, that's a good one. Sia. Oh, I have several of her songs on my pump-up playlist, to be honest.
Tiffani: That's the one that's like, yeah. So listen, I don't know my theme song right now because… I can't say my brain is blank, but I vividly remember during college, for better or for worse, the listeners, please do not age me with this response. But I was an RA at my college, actually at this college, and I would open up the doors and I would start singing the song Good Morning Baltimore from the Hairspray musical. Right. I can see that. And let's be clear, no one asked for this. I'm sure someone did. And let's be clear. No one was grateful or thankful for this. And I got many requests to stop. But you just filter out the noise, right? And so Good Morning, Baltimore. I would sing it every morning to my residents.
Jessica: I'm picturing. the clip of the movie right now.
Tiffani: Yeah that was me.
Jessica: Did you skip along the halls too?
Tiffani: that would be maybe some spinning. I think that we both know my vibe. Just listening to you kind of talk through this one thing that makes me really curious is what what would you say has been like the biggest um i guess noticeable like factor like how your mental health influences how you play the game or how you play the sport, which like water skiing, I guess, is it like a game? It's a sport. But how do you see your mental health influencing how you do? How do you guard that? You know what I mean?
Jessica: Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Very good question. So with skiing, you can kind of compare it to a lot of other sports as well. But with skiing, it's kind of like. You're working really hard for like 17 seconds and then you're resting. And then you're working really hard for 17 seconds and then you're resting. So in that 17 seconds, your brain is working in overdrive. If you are distracted thinking about what you're having for lunch, what you have to do later that day, that 17 seconds is going to be very, very difficult. So some of my warm-up prep and meditation and music and things I try to do off the water to prepare for that transition onto the water is to help calm down the mind, to limit that extra noise and chatter in the mind.
Tiffani: Kind of limit what comes in so you can know what to focus on?
Jessica: Correct.
Tiffani: I would imagine that takes a lot of discipline.
Jessica: It's a learning process. It's an ongoing experience, right? There are better days than others. That's just how it goes. That's the reality.
Tiffani: Yeah, absolutely. So talk to me about sleep and nutrition.
Jessica: Oh, my gosh. Those have been two really, really big factors in helping with focus and your attention span and your physical output in the sport as well. I noticed as I tracked my sleep and kind of kept an eye on it, when I felt the best was eight, eight and a half hours of sleep is what my body needed. And I've learned the better ways to wind down and prepare for sleep to get more restful sleep. Sometimes I'd be like, oh, I was in bed for 20 hours or whatever, and then I'd still wake up exhausted. Well, what was I doing? Did I have sugar right before bed? Did I watch TV in bed? You know, all the different things to kind of keep your mind going and the sugar affects your sleep as well. So different things like that to kind of help.
Kirk: So people have heard the term holistic approach. Yeah. What does that mean to you? What does that look like?
Jessica: To me, it means that you're looking at the whole body and the whole experience of how things interact and affect each other. So, for example, like nutrition, that's your input and your performance would be your output. But you need to fuel your body with the right things to help get what you want out of it. And sleep is recovery. If you don't have the right recovery, you're not going to be able to continue to grow and build muscle and to give your mind a break to then enhance the focus and all of that stuff. So to me, that all goes, all plays a huge part in each other.
Kirk: Okay. Because a lot of what you're saying, I look back and think, okay, that's... Also how you can study well, get through life pretty well. Work. Work. Relationships. Relationships. I mean, it covers a lot. Yes. It covers a lot if you do those things. Cool.
Jessica: Yeah. Some nutrition, focusing on what kind of foods your body agrees with, what kind of foods your body doesn't agree with, what makes you more sleepy. Don't eat those before you're about to perform. That's not going to be productive.
Kirk: Right, right. So just kind of learning those things. No, there's not one. Well, I guess you could go to the Internet and have people tell you this stuff, but really it's individualistic. I mean, what's going to work for you isn't necessarily going to work for me or for Tiffani. Correct. So would you say it's much more of an exploratory process?
Jessica: Yes. Trial and error.
Kirk: Trial and error.
Jessica: You know, it's common. You'll probably see athletes that'll be like, oh, I'm not going to drink coffee before I perform or before I, you know, exercise or whatever, because I'll be too jittery and I won't be able to think. And then some people are like, well, I need to wake my mind up. So it really just depends on the person. A lot of it's trial and error. There are some like foundational pieces. You don't want anything with, you know, excessive sugar or extremely processed foods because that's going to cause extra inflammation in the body. So it's going to be much harder for your body to recover. And it's also going to affect how your brain functions with focus as well. Okay.
Tiffani: I'm so interested in you talking about just the pressures that you don't even think about as an athlete. I clearly was not a college athlete because I don't like to exercise. And also, I exercise sometimes, but it was never like a passion of mine. It was never like on my radar, the stressors that athletes face because I wasn't a student-athlete. You know what I mean? And so one thing that I have noticed on my children are pretty athletic and I'll go to these games and I'm talking about. middle school games and there's so much pressure. The parents are yelling in the stands or um one thing that i'd like to do and I think Kirk I think maybe you'd like to do this as well when i'm in public places i like to just like watch people and see how they react which i'm sure somebody's watching me but um i noticed very um just very keenly at one of the games i was at recently One of the teams did not do well, and these are middle school kids. They did not do well, and the coach was so just hard at them, yelling. And you got the kids just, they look so defeated. And you look at the parents, and the parents are frustrated and disappointed. And I'm thinking, It's just a game. Now, I know I'm not the one playing, and I know there's a lot of other factors involved, but I feel like for so many of us, we forget that the kids or the college athletes, they're people, and they have feelings, and they have emotions. And sometimes I think that the spectators want to be entertained, and they don't remember that there are real people out there playing. And so I love hearing your perspective as a student athlete. All the pressures that you're carrying, and even the weight of disappointing other people. That's a lot. And so for people who are maybe not the athlete, that maybe they're the friend or maybe they're the parent or the classmate, what can we do to support that athlete and help hold their feelings when there's a lot of pressure going on?
Jessica: I think one of the biggest things that's helped me from my support system is validating. I can see you're really upset about how you skied today or how you performed today or today wasn't a good day. You know, just validating that experience. Because sometimes when we try to be super uplifting and motivating and inspiring, we're not in that thought process yet. Hopefully we shift quickly. But in that moment, it's just like you're trying to argue that the sky is purple. Like it's just not. Your brain is not computing that because you're in that headspace of being so upset or so focused on that failure piece. So the biggest thing is validating being with them. I know that sucks. I know. I know you worked really hard. I know. Well, what can you do better? What can you learn from this? Are some of the thought process shifts that people have asked me and that I've learned things that I need to kind of ask myself in that experience as well. It's like, how can I, what's one takeaway? that I can do from learn from this experience? What's one thing I can do better next time? And just treating it as like it's another opportunity to grow and to get better instead of I didn't meet my goal. It's a way to kind of reframe it.
Tiffani: Well, and you've said multiple times throughout this episode that it's a process or, you know, we're still working on this. I really love to hear just that sense of grace and understanding that we're imperfect people. And for the most part, we're doing the best we can do. And we're not going to get it right every time. And sometimes we do and we celebrate and rejoice. And some days we don't. It's okay to feel sad. It's okay to sit in it for a minute. And like you said, acknowledge how I feel. Yeah. And then you take a breath and you get to work.
Jessica: Yeah, exactly.
Kirk: So that's really helpful information. Thanks. Yeah. Yeah, I really appreciate you being here. Thank you for joining us today on our podcast.
Jessica:Absolutely. Thank you for having me.
Kirk: Wonderful. Thanks.
